TrackPoints formula confusion

Alan From Rochester Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:16 pm

I put the TrackPoints formula from the About page into Excel, but when I plug in the number of bills and hits listed for a given user, I get an amount of TrackPoints different from the amount listed. I see no pattern in the errors.

What does the 10 point maximum on the bonus apply to? What parts of the formula aren't listed on the About page, and what are they? Where and how is the rounding done in computing the hit rate, bonus points and final score

Kalisiin Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:29 am

Alan From Rochester wrote:I put the TrackPoints formula from the About page into Excel, but when I plug in the number of bills and hits listed for a given user, I get an amount of TrackPoints different from the amount listed. I see no pattern in the errors.

What does the 10 point maximum on the bonus apply to? What parts of the formula aren't listed on the About page, and what are they? Where and how is the rounding done in computing the hit rate, bonus points and final score

You can't do it in a spreadsheet, because the amount of Trackpoints a user gets for a hit is different for each and every user.

You get one point for each bill entry, no mater what. That stays constant.
You get one point PLUS 1/5 of your hit rate (up to 10 points max) for each hit. This is calculated by the user's Hit Rate AT THE TIME OF THE HIT.

Since the Hit Rate is always changing, you cannot know what their Hit Rate was at the time they got a specific hit.

So there's no real way to put a formula into a Spreadsheet. Some users, too, like Diamondback Dave...get a penalty for too many hits from same user - I have no idea what amount of hits from same user begins to trigger the penalty. This is WHY I ask people I trade with on TD to NOT HIT any bills I trade with them. I don't want the penalty. Plus I don't want cheap "gimme" hits.

Now, take me for example.
I currently have a 13.4 % hit Rate.
So if I get a hit right now, what I get for the hit is 1 point PLUS 13/5 of a point (or 2.60 points.) So I get 3.60 points for one hit.

On the other hand...with your current 0.6% hit rate, you get a straight-up one point for your hit

A user like Markus...with a 7.8 percent Hit Rate...gets 1 plus 7/5 points - or 2.40 points for a hit. Whereas I got 3.60 points for a hit.

Now you also understand why I am manic about keeping my Hit Rate high!

dctim Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:01 am

Yea, the formula is a bit tricky. The main stumbling block is that your score is calculated AS the hits arrive and is not easily backward compatible.

For the purposes of ease of calculation, let's pick on Jack, since he does not have too many bills in the system. Jack entered 111 bills before he got his first hit, so he was at exactly 111.00 points - then his first hit arrived.

A	Jack entered	111
B	Jack hits	1
C	total entered+hits	112
D	Jack hit rate	0.00901
E	one-fifth of hit rate	0.001801802
F	E times 100	0.1801802
F	Score	112.18

* Score row = F + C

Jack has since entered an additional 104 bills, BUT his "hit rate" has not changed UNTIL his next hit arrives.

A	Jack entered	215
B	Jack hits	1
C	total entered+hits	216
D	Jack hit rate	0.00465
E	one-fifth of hit rate	0.001801802
F	E times 100	0.1801802
F	Score	216.18

dctim Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:11 am

Like Kalisiin, I also get 3.60 points per hit (rounded). My Hit rate is 12.991%, while K is at 13.382%.

Alan From Rochester Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:43 pm

Ah, it's about hit rate *at the time of the hit*. I figured there might be something besides current number of bills and hits in the formula, as opposed to the formula processing those numbers differently.

This exploration of the formula helps clarify that the hit rate bonus is not enough to offset entering fewer bills to get a higher hit rate.

dctim Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:05 pm

Alan From Rochester wrote:Ah, it's about hit rate *at the time of the hit*. I figured there might be something besides current number of bills and hits in the formula, as opposed to the formula processing those numbers differently.

This exploration of the formula helps clarify that the hit rate bonus is not enough to offset entering fewer bills to get a higher hit rate.

Both K and I advocate an "all of the above" method. Enter more bills = Yes. Do those things that get more hits = Yes.

Like that *other* place, a high hit rate is your friend. The sooner in your track life you can increase hit rate, the happier your score will be.

dctim Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:24 pm

Here is a chart of the current "points per hit" based on each users current stats. (this is backwards looking)

TD Rank	Name	Bonus per Hit*
1	Tony	2.375
2	Darrel	1.640
3	Darth Slurpee	2.055
4	Diamondback Dave	1.051
5	Dr. William Stamper	2.467
6	ELECTRIC RED	2.589
7	cylon	1.191
8	Kalisiin	3.307
9	Mike S	2.521
10	Markus	2.543
11	ford_zx2_1999	1.824
12	dctim	3.113
13	EJKorvette	0.000
14	TwoLiberator	1.029
15	Vesuvius	1.997
16	M1 Garand	2.140
17	Alan From Rochester	1.093
18	mythman	1.086
19	Matt_How	1.485
20	Stargate	0.000
21	kidgame2001	1.331
22	LarryP563	1.256
23	Tom from NJ	0.000
24	CaptAHole	1.208
25	ask-me-naught	1.032

*Bonus per Hit - includes the bill that gets hit

Alan From Rochester Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:21 pm

I figure entering a bill in a way unlikely to get a hit is better than not entering it at all

dctim Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:07 pm

Alan From Rochester wrote:I figure entering a bill in a way unlikely to get a hit is better than not entering it at all

I have no beef with this approach. Go play the game the way you like.

Alan From Rochester Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:54 pm

Even with another site's formula offering a less dramatic reward for more bills, these kinds of discussions still happen over there.

dctim wrote:
Alan From Rochester wrote:I figure entering a bill in a way unlikely to get a hit is better than not entering it at all
I have no beef with this approach. Go play the game the way you like.

That's the spirit.

Darth Slurpee Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:23 pm

Some of the calculations above are not matching the actuals I've been recording daily. I went back over the past eleven days and calculated the TrackDollar Score increase (not just the Bonus) from one hit/no entry days (as I captured them) for everyone in the top twelve, with exceptions noted.

1 Tony 3.12 (11/29) *
2 Darrel 2.28 (11/28)
3 Darth Slurpee 2.81 (12/3) **
4 Diamondback Dave 1.64 (11/30)
5 Dr. William Stamper 3.58 (12/2)
6 Electric Red 3.22 (11/30)
7 cylon 1.26 (12/2) ***
8 Kalisiin 3.68 (12/2)
9 Mike S 3.48 (12/1)
10 Markus 2.57 (11/23)
11 ford_x2_1999 2.04 (11/30) ****
12 dctim 3.60 (12/2)

* two-hit day, so Trackdollar delta / 2
** actual change in score from last hit just now [Thank you, Markus]
*** six-entry day, so Trackdollar delta - 6
**** 28-entry day, so Trackdollar delta - 28

dctim Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:19 pm

I have not been keeping day-to-day, so thanks for the report, Darth. There may be some things I have not taken into account.

Kalisiin Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:15 pm

Darth, yes, for the purposes of what I said above...I noticed I got 3.68 and not 3.60 for my hits.

My mistake was in assuming you got 1/5 point for each WHOLE PERCENTAGE of your Hit rate, hence my 3.60 rather than 3.68 - given my 13.4 percent hit rate...and, in fact, Alan would get better than a straight-up one point for a hit...because, though his hit rate is 0.6 he still gets a small hit bonus, which I had incorrectly assumed did not start until above 1.0 percent hit rate.

I know Diamondback Dave's numbers look awfully lopsided, and this, I believe is because of the penalty of too many hits between the same users. I believe Markus mentioned something about this once, though I do not remember the context of it.

At any rate, my main point in this thread was to point out to Alan...that there is no way to put figures into a Spreadsheet, and calculate a Track Score...because our point-scoring algorithm incorporates certain variables which cannot be known for sure - at least not without extensive work...and, even then, it does not translate into a nice neat one-size-fits-all algorithm the way a George Score does.

Additionally complicating this is the Alternate Hits on WG? - which is now what happens when a user has to many hits from the same user - although nobody knows what that total is...and if it is a lifetime total, or a rolling total or what. Such "black hits" are not counted as hits at all on WG, and are thus not calculated into George Score...whereas ALL HITS between users are scored here - BUT...as I mentioned...at a certain point of too many hits from the same user....some penalty which I don't know...is applied.

So, for example, if I have ten hits from the same user, probably no penalty...but if I have fifty from the same user..I probably have gotten some penalty. But I'm not certain at what point the penalty kicks in or how much the penalty actually is. the upshot of all of this, though...is that there is not any neat algorithm by which you can simply enter a TD user's Total Hits and Total Entries...and from those two things alone, calculate his Track Score...because our scoring system employs variables whose values are not constant.

Darth Slurpee Thu Jan 01, 2015 3:26 pm

Darth Slurpee wrote:From December 3, 2013:
1 Tony 3.12
2 Darrel 2.28
3 Darth Slurpee 2.81
4 Diamondback Dave 1.64
5 Dr. William Stamper 3.58
6 Electric Red 3.22
7 cylon 1.26
8 Kalisiin 3.68
9 Mike S 3.48
10 Markus 2.57
11 ford_x2_1999 2.04
12 dctim 3.60

1 Tony 3.39
2 Darrel 2.46
3 Darth Slurpee 3.92
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 Alan From Rochester 1.17
6 Electric Red 3.28
7 Dr. William Stamper 3.65
8 cylon 1.29
9 Kalisiin 3.72
10 Mike S 3.81
11 Markus 2.62
12 ford_x2_1999 2.21
13 dctim 3.57

Kalisiin Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:49 pm

dctim wrote:
Alan From Rochester wrote:Ah, it's about hit rate *at the time of the hit*. I figured there might be something besides current number of bills and hits in the formula, as opposed to the formula processing those numbers differently.

This exploration of the formula helps clarify that the hit rate bonus is not enough to offset entering fewer bills to get a higher hit rate.
Both K and I advocate an "all of the above" method. Enter more bills = Yes. Do those things that get more hits = Yes.

Like that *other* place, a high hit rate is your friend. The sooner in your track life you can increase hit rate, the happier your score will be.

But....unlike that other place...running up the turnstyle HERE will result in an immediate increase in TrackPoints, whereas entries alone won't do at the other place.
It is all a matter of what your own priorities happen to be.

For me, it is hit-rate...because there is NOTHING I can do, short of getting hits...to run up that score.

If someone else has a different priority...then bully for them.
But I take pride in having among the highest hit rates of any active user on TD.

Jack002 Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:19 pm

Interesting thread. Glad I could be of help up there in that example. LOL

As for the alts (they're not hits!) on wheresgeorge, and that stinking 20 hit rule there. The rule is I can only hit 20 of another members bills ever ever ever. If we're both members since 1999 and its 2020, then 20 bills is all you get. No rolloffs ever. Stinks.

I didn't realize the process to the TD score was this complex. I don't watch mine too much. I shot up as the #1 member in MO as soon as I entered 100 bills. Easy! I look at bills entered and total hits to see how far someone has come along. I like the scoring system here fine. It works for me.

Darth Slurpee Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:12 am

Darth Slurpee wrote:
Darth Slurpee wrote:From December 3, 2013:
1 Tony 3.12
2 Darrel 2.28
3 Darth Slurpee 2.81
4 Diamondback Dave 1.64
5 Dr. William Stamper 3.58
6 Electric Red 3.22
7 cylon 1.26
8 Kalisiin 3.68
9 Mike S 3.48
10 Markus 2.57
11 ford_x2_1999 2.04
12 dctim 3.60
From EOY14
1 Tony 3.39
2 Darrel 2.46
3 Darth Slurpee 3.92
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 Alan From Rochester 1.17
6 Electric Red 3.28
7 Dr. William Stamper 3.65
8 cylon 1.29
9 Kalisiin 3.72
10 Mike S 3.81
11 Markus 2.62
12 ford_x2_1999 2.21
13 dctim 3.57

1 Darth Slurpee 4.97
2 Tony 3.51
3 Alan From Rochester 1.20
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 cylon 1.30
6 Electric Red 3.30
7 Kalisiin 3.85
8 ford_x2_1999 2.20
9 Mike S 3.92
10 Markus 2.65
11 dctim 3.45
12 M1 Garand 2.51 He is an up-and-comer, so I've added him to my tracking this year. This is his starting point.

Alan From Rochester Fri Jan 01, 2016 9:32 pm

Kalisiin wrote:Alternate Hits on WG? - which is now what happens when a user has to many hits from the same user - although nobody knows what that total is...and if it is a lifetime total, or a rolling total or what. Such "black hits" are not counted as hits at all on WG, and are thus not calculated into George Score

You can regular hit 20 bills from the same user, and 2 more each year if they're on FOG.

Kalisiin Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:47 pm

Alan From Rochester wrote:
Kalisiin wrote:Alternate Hits on WG? - which is now what happens when a user has to many hits from the same user - although nobody knows what that total is...and if it is a lifetime total, or a rolling total or what. Such "black hits" are not counted as hits at all on WG, and are thus not calculated into George Score

You can regular hit 20 bills from the same user, and 2 more each year if they're on FOG.

Ah...so more than 20 ONLY if they contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of Hank himself. After the way he treated me, I would not give him two pennies to rub together.

Darth Slurpee Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:52 pm

Darth Slurpee wrote:
Darth Slurpee wrote:
Darth Slurpee wrote:From December 3, 2013:
1 Tony 3.12
2 Darrel 2.28
3 Darth Slurpee 2.81
4 Diamondback Dave 1.64
5 Dr. William Stamper 3.58
6 Electric Red 3.22
7 cylon 1.26
8 Kalisiin 3.68
9 Mike S 3.48
10 Markus 2.57
11 ford_x2_1999 2.04
12 dctim 3.60
From EOY14
1 Tony 3.39
2 Darrel 2.46
3 Darth Slurpee 3.92
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 Alan From Rochester 1.17
6 Electric Red 3.28
7 Dr. William Stamper 3.65
8 cylon 1.29
9 Kalisiin 3.72
10 Mike S 3.81
11 Markus 2.62
12 ford_x2_1999 2.21
13 dctim 3.57

From EOY15
1 Darth Slurpee 4.97
2 Tony 3.51
3 Alan From Rochester 1.20
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 cylon 1.30
6 Electric Red 3.30
7 Kalisiin 3.85
8 ford_x2_1999 2.20
9 Mike S 3.92
10 Markus 2.65
11 dctim 3.45
12 M1 Garand 2.51 He is an up-and-comer, so I've added him to my tracking this year. This is his starting point.

1 Darth Slurpee 5.56
2 Tony 3.54
3 Darrel 2.49
4 Alan From Rochester 1.21
5 Diamondback Dave 1.59
6 cylon 1.29
7 Electric Red 3.34
8 Kalisiin 3.88
9 ford_x2_1999 2.17
10 Markus 2.66
11 Time Lord 1.12
12 M1 Garand 2.42
13 dctim 3.43
14 Vesuivius 2.56
15 rjd 1.73

Darth Slurpee Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:39 am

Darth Slurpee wrote:
Darth Slurpee wrote:
Darth Slurpee wrote:
Darth Slurpee wrote:From December 3, 2013:
1 Tony 3.12
2 Darrel 2.28
3 Darth Slurpee 2.81
4 Diamondback Dave 1.64
5 Dr. William Stamper 3.58
6 Electric Red 3.22
7 cylon 1.26
8 Kalisiin 3.68
9 Mike S 3.48
10 Markus 2.57
11 ford_x2_1999 2.04
12 dctim 3.60
From EOY14
1 Tony 3.39
2 Darrel 2.46
3 Darth Slurpee 3.92
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 Alan From Rochester 1.17
6 Electric Red 3.28
7 Dr. William Stamper 3.65
8 cylon 1.29
9 Kalisiin 3.72
10 Mike S 3.81
11 Markus 2.62
12 ford_x2_1999 2.21
13 dctim 3.57

From EOY15
1 Darth Slurpee 4.97
2 Tony 3.51
3 Alan From Rochester 1.20
4 Diamondback Dave 1.62
5 cylon 1.30
6 Electric Red 3.30
7 Kalisiin 3.85
8 ford_x2_1999 2.20
9 Mike S 3.92
10 Markus 2.65
11 dctim 3.45
12 M1 Garand 2.51 He is an up-and-comer, so I've added him to my tracking this year. This is his starting point.

From EOY16
1 Darth Slurpee 5.56
2 Tony 3.54
3 Darrel 2.49
4 Alan From Rochester 1.21
5 Diamondback Dave 1.59
6 cylon 1.29
7 Electric Red 3.34
8 Kalisiin 3.88
9 ford_x2_1999 2.17
10 Markus 2.66
11 Time Lord 1.12
12 M1 Garand 2.42
13 dctim 3.43
14 Vesuivius 2.56
15 rjd 1.73

From EOY17
1 Darth Slurpee 5.35 backsliding due to too many entries last year
2 kenstel 2.14
3 Tony 3.56
4 Darrel 2.50
5 Alan From Rochester 1.24
6 Diamondback Dave 1.58
7 cylon 1.32
8 Dr. William Stamper 3.70
9 ford_x2_1999 2.09
10 Kalisiin 3.88
11 rjd 4.30
12 Time Lord 1.17
13 Mike S 3.98
14 M1 Garand 2.50
15 Markus 2.66
16 dctim 3.36
17 Vesuivius 2.59

dctim Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:32 pm

I have been backsliding for awhile now! Laughing

I've worked in 5 different locations in the last 5 years. I also enter fewer bills these days (for reasons). I have a hypothesis that my large urban area might have a negative affect on my potential hit rate.

I see that I am "just" 4,000-ish points behind Marcus, so I just need to enter 330 bills a month to reach him this year. Yikes!

On the happier news spectrum, I got a $ 2 bill in change today!

Jack002 Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:40 pm

An old old post I almost thought was a new one.
I assume by what I read up there your points per hit is 1 plus your hitrate over 5? If so, mine hitrate is 10.1 now, so 1 + 10/5 or 3.0 points?

Darth Slurpee Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:57 am

Jack002 wrote:An old old post I almost thought was a new one.
I assume by what I read up there your points per hit is 1 plus your hitrate over 5? If so, mine hitrate is 10.1 now, so 1 + 10/5 or 3.0 points?

Your hit yesterday increased your Track Points by 3.02. Since it's just a calculation, your 10.1% hits/_entries rate is truncated for display purposes but is calculated by the exact value, regardless of how many digits it takes it out to.

Congratulations on achieving a double-digit hits/_entries rate!

Alan From Rochester Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:03 pm

My hit rate is up to 1.2% (more like 1.19%), so .238 bonus points per hit, right?
I've been marking more and stealthing less, but not just because of TrackPoints.

As for the 20 hit limit on the other site, the number of additional hits allowed per year has been increased from 2 to 10 - http://forums.wheresgeorge.com/showthread.php?215814

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